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Wat ik ffff wil(de) zeggen............

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ONN 1 maart 2018 16:58

quote:
josti5 schreef op 1 maart 2018 16:18:
Zo'n 15 jaar geleden zijn mij dank zij de handel en wandel van Talpa bij Versatel de ogen écht geopend.
Hetzelfde spel heb ik van Herk met Crucell zien spelen.
En de grootaandeelhouder met Borussia Dortmund.
En de Agnelli's met Juventus.
En momenteel Lotito met Lazio Roma.

'De' realiteit en 'de' waarheid zijn nu eenmaal voor iedereen weer anders.

Grappig die laatste regel Josti want...je vergeet mij natuurlijk. Ik ben hier toch ook alleen maar bezig in dienst van Talpa ? Tenminste, dat hebben jij en je zonnegod Atitlan altijd beweerd nietwaar ?

Manipulatie hallucinatie...hahaha. Josti!!

ONN 1 maart 2018 17:02

quote:
@realjohnnywalker schreef op 1 maart 2018 16:31:
grote vissen eten kleine vissen.

Het is natuurlijk niet voor niets dat van de actief beleggende particulieren (die er ook nog wat derivaatjes bij doen) zo'n 90% verliest op termijn.

[verwijderd] 1 maart 2018 17:04

quote:
Witte Weduwe schreef op 1 maart 2018 16:52:
Een redelijk leesbaar stuk over algo's en het doel van die dingen:
www.math.nyu.edu/faculty/avellane/Qua...

corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2017/08/03/th...

Financial markets face a new and daunting high-tech mode of manipulation. With this new mode of market manipulation, millions of dollars can vanish in seconds, rogue actors can halt the trading of billion-dollar companies, and trillion-dollar financial markets can be distorted with a simple click or a few lines of code. Almost every investor and institution is at risk. This is the new precarious reality of our financial markets.

In my recent article, The New Market Manipulation, I examine this new, perilous financial reality, the emerging high-tech mode of new market manipulation, and the need for better pragmatic policies to address the rising technological threats to manipulate our financial markets. The article offers an original, early examination of the new high-tech forms of market distortions that it calls cybernetic market manipulation, explains the critical consequences of these dangerously disruptive actions on the marketplace, and proposes sensible policies to better protect investors and safeguard the financial system.

In contrast to the analog, human-driven methods of traditional market manipulation, new cybernetic market manipulation generally uses the electronic communications, information systems, and algorithmic platforms of the new, high-tech financial marketplace to unfairly distort information and prices relating to financial instruments or transactions. At its core, these distortive actions and effects tamper with the humans and computerized information and communications systems of the marketplace. They corrupt how humans and machines communicate between and amongst each other in the financial markets. While cybernetic market manipulation generally shares the same unscrupulous goals as its traditional counterpart, it can be much more impactful because of the unparalleled interconnectedness and unprecedented value of modern financial markets. In some instances, cybernetic market manipulation represents the use of new financial technology to carry out old illicit schemes. In other instances, it represents the use of new financial technology to carry out new illicit schemes.

A few of the more common and prominent methods of cybernetic market manipulation are pinging, spoofing, electronic front running, and mass misinformation. Each of these methods is made possible by the evolution of financial market operations from a manual enterprise to a computerized enterprise. The rise of autonomous, high-speed supercomputers running on smart algorithms makes cybernetic market manipulation possible and profitable since many of the new manipulative schemes require the rapid submission and cancellation of voluminous orders measured in seconds. Human traders and brokers who gather and execute trades in time increments measured in minutes and hours are simply too slow to execute these schemes in a profitable manner, given the voluminous and swift orders that are frequently necessary to makes these schemes worthwhile. For instance, with mass misinformation schemes, unscrupulous parties can now leverage the mechanisms of new media technology and new financial technology to quickly disrupt and distort financial markets for their own gains on an unprecedented scale by disseminating bad data, fake news, and fictitious filings into a high-tech marketplace that thrives on accurate information. Because the new financial marketplace is so reliant on interconnected information and communications systems, a distortion to one source of information can have a large, volatile cascading effect on the greater marketplace in the short run, and a confidence-jarring effect on the greater marketplace in the long run.

The emergence of cybernetic market manipulation presents serious challenges for policymakers and regulators due to resource constraints and ambiguities in applying laws designed for a human-driven marketplace to one driven by smart machines. In particular, policymakers and regulators will likely be at a resource disadvantage relative to high-tech schemers, and have a hard time detecting and taking enforcement action against cybernetic manipulation schemes that they perceive to be illegal.

While a consensus in the debates concerning the larger regulatory questions about the new modes of market manipulation remains forthcoming, there are, nevertheless, preliminary steps that can be taken to address the looming implications confronting institutions, regulators, and investors. In particular, near term action can be taken to enhance the integrity of financial intermediaries, improve financial cybersecurity, and safeguard the investments of ordinary investors. First, financial intermediaries must serve as stronger sentinels against market manipulation because attempts at manipulation frequently happen at the intermediary level, and not at the market level. The financial marketplace is truly a market of intermediaries of various types and sizes. As such, financial intermediaries serve as key arenas for market manipulation. To better combat market manipulation that frequently originates at the intermediary level, policymakers should adopt the organizing principle of intermediary integrity. This principle, as detailed in the article, advocates for intermediary practices that favor private supervision, investor neutrality, enhanced security, and fair access in its conduct with counterparties and other market participants. Second, there should be greater and more urgent emphasis on financial cybersecurity, since the new methods of manipulation frequently leverage cyber means for devious ends. Because much of the technological infrastructure of the financial marketplace is linked, privately held and operated, policymakers, regulators, and private firms all need to work better in a concerted fashion to enhance financial cybersecurity and guard against cybernetic market manipulation. Third, ordinary investors should adopt a boring, low-cost, low speed investment strategy in the new high-tech, high-speed financial marketplace filled with the perils of cybernetic market manipulation. To best maximize their long-term returns in this turbulent, high-tech marketplace, ordinary investors should invest via low-fee index funds, exchange-traded funds, or mutual funds that track the broad marketplace. This straightforward investment advice is not novel or original; famed investors like John Bogle, Warren Buffett, and Burton Malkiel have been advocating this approach for years. Nevertheless, though it may seem straightforward and simple, many ordinary investors still lose billions of dollars each year trying to beat the market.

In sum, the new methods of cybernetic market manipulation will pose some of the most vexing challenges for policymakers and regulators in the coming years. The emergence of market manipulation methods that leverage new financial technology, electronic communications, and information systems to unfairly privilege the few at the expense of the many will threaten the very integrity and credibility of our financial markets. Every investor and institution could be at risk of suffering direct and indirect losses. While clear corrective long term actions still remain forthcoming, certain near term actions can be taken to stem the potential harms of cybernetic market manipulation, and better safeguard the integrity of financial markets for everyone.

bearishbull 1 maart 2018 17:20

Wat is manipulatie. Eigenlijk is iedere order markt manipulatie. Hoe groter je order is ten opzichte van 'normaal' hoe groter de manipulatie. Iedereen die een order inlegt loopt risico. Dus ook de grote partijen die zulke grote orders kunnen inleggen dat alles intraday even in beweging zet.

Misschien ben ik te nuchter, maar ik geloof niet in die partijen die succesvol winstgevend alles in beweging zetten. Het kost namelijk nogal wat geld met een behoorlijk risico dat makkelijk uitbuitbaar is in de markten vol automatische arbitrage..

Twinkeling 1 maart 2018 17:25

Er wordt natuurlijk gemanipuleerd als de mogelijkheid daar is. Euribor als voorbeeld. Hoe groter de markt, met hoe meer partijen, hoe kleiner de kans dat manipulatie slaagt.

[verwijderd] 1 maart 2018 17:39

quote:
bearishbull schreef op 1 maart 2018 17:20:
Wat is manipulatie. Eigenlijk is iedere order markt manipulatie. Hoe groter je order is ten opzichte van 'normaal' hoe groter de manipulatie. Iedereen die een order inlegt loopt risico. Dus ook de grote partijen die zulke grote orders kunnen inleggen dat alles intraday even in beweging zet.

Misschien ben ik te nuchter, maar ik geloof niet in die partijen die succesvol winstgevend alles in beweging zetten. Het kost namelijk nogal wat geld met een behoorlijk risico dat makkelijk uitbuitbaar is in de markten vol automatische arbitrage..

partijen zijn tegenwoordig zo groot, dat ze weken zo niet maanden prijzen, zeker van individuele aandelen met een niet al te grote marketcap, kunnen duwen of pompen.

[verwijderd] 1 maart 2018 17:47

quote:
ffff schreef op 1 maart 2018 15:13:
Grappig is dat juist in diezelfde KK beweerd wordt dat je orders in een mum van tijd en voor vele miljoenen kunt invoeren, terwijl dat nu juist voor de paticulier bij gewonne brokers beslist niet kan.

Het sprookjesboek is weer geopend zie ik.

Aangevuld met spookverhalen over manipulatie.

Vermakelijke kost.

[verwijderd] 1 maart 2018 18:04

quote:
BEN RisQuant schreef op 1 maart 2018 17:47:
[...]

Het sprookjesboek is weer geopend zie ik.

Aangevuld met spookverhalen over manipulatie.

Vermakelijke kost.

iedereen handelt naar eer en geweten.........................zeker in de financiéle markten. dream on...

www.reuters.com/article/global-curren...

www.cfr.org/backgrounder/understandin...

moneymorning.com/2015/07/08/four-noto...

www.investopedia.com/articles/00/1009...

[verwijderd] 1 maart 2018 18:10

Natuurlijk zijn er schurken en boeven die proberen de boel te flessen. Alleen lukt dat niet in een open transparante markt.

Zelfs de allergrootste partijen - centrale banken - staan machteloos tegen de macht van de vrije markt.

Laat staan kleine kruimelaars.

Tuurlijk, in illiquide fondsen kan je kortstondig de koers beïnvloeden en hopen dat anderen meelopen. Maar in grote fondsen? No way.

Noem mij maar eens 1 succesvolle partij die dit gedaan heeft?

[verwijderd] 1 maart 2018 18:12

quote:
BEN RisQuant schreef op 1 maart 2018 18:10:
Natuurlijk zijn er schurken en boeven die proberen de boel te flessen. Alleen lukt dat niet in een open transparante markt.

Zelfs de allergrootste partijen - centrale banken - staan machteloos tegen de macht van de vrije markt.

Laat staan kleine kruimelaars.

Tuurlijk, in illiquide fondsen kan je kortstondig de koers beïnvloeden en hopen dat anderen meelopen. Maar in grote fondsen? No way.

Noem mij maar eens 1 succesvolle partij die dit gedaan heeft?

blackrock.

[verwijderd] 1 maart 2018 18:20

Ben heel erg benieuwd. Laat maar zien.

Twinkeling 1 maart 2018 18:21

Ze zijn ooit door een technische fout op de vingers getikt. Zelf door Blackrock gemeld...

[verwijderd] 1 maart 2018 18:23

law.emory.edu/elj/content/volume-66/i...

The New Market Manipulation
Tom C.W. Lin *
Abstract
Markets face a new and daunting mode of manipulation. With this new mode of market manipulation, millions of dollars can vanish in seconds, rogue actors can halt the trading of billion-dollar companies, and trillion-dollar financial markets can be distorted with a simple click or a few lines of code. Every investor and institution is at risk. This is the new precarious reality of our financial markets.

This Article is about our ominous financial reality, this dangerous new mode of market manipulation, and the need for pragmatic policies to better address the rising threats to manipulate our financial markets. To start, the Article offers an overview about the recent rise and regulation of new financial technology. It begins with a close examination of The Flash Crash of 2010 and the publication of Flash Boys by Michael Lewis. Next, the Article surveys the changing landscape of market manipulation. It identifies traditional manipulation methods like cornering, front running, and pumping-and-dumping, as well as new manipulation methods like spoofing, pinging, and mass misinformation. It explains how new cybernetic market manipulation schemes that leverage modern technologies like electronic networks, social media, and artificial intelligence are more harmful than traditional schemes. The Article then grapples with why this new mode of market manipulation will present critical challenges for regulators. Finally, it recommends three pragmatic proposals for combating the new threats of cybernetic market manipulation by improving intermediary integrity, enhancing financial cybersecurity, and simplifying investment strategies. Ultimately, this Article provides an original and improved framework for thinking and acting anew about market regulation, market operations, and market manipulation.

Introduction
Wall Street is an illusion. 1 The New York Stock Exchange, the real-time tickers, the traders, the bankers, the brokers, and the bronze charging bull all create the image that Wall Street, and its people make up the center of a transparent, fair, and efficient financial universe. In reality, much of the action today takes place far below and far away from Wall Street—in machines, data centers, super computers, and fiber optic cables located in anonymous buildings on non-descript streets. 2 In this new financial reality, billions of dollars can disappear in minutes, a handful of individuals can fundamentally transform financial operations, a rogue actor can halt the trading of Fortune 500 companies, and trillion-dollar financial markets can be manipulated with a simple click or a few lines of code. 3

In the Fall of 2015, the perils of this new financial reality manifested in an unprecedented Department of Justice announcement of charges against three individuals who allegedly hacked numerous American banks and businesses, “perpetrated one of the largest thefts of financial-related data in history,” engaged in massive dissemination of fraudulent market information, and orchestrated a global, multi-million dollar stock manipulation scheme. 4 According to the unsealed indictments, the hackers generated over $100 million in illicit gains using only their computers to hack into private servers and manipulate the markets for certain stocks. 5 Preet Bharara, then U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, described their criminal market manipulation activities as “securities fraud on cyber steroids.” 6

This Article is about this new, perilous financial reality, the emerging mode of new market manipulation, and the need for better pragmatic policies to address the rising technological threats to manipulate financial markets. This Article offers an original, early examination of the new high-tech forms of market distortions that it calls cybernetic market manipulation, explains the critical consequences of these dangerously disruptive actions on the marketplace, and proposes sensible policies to better protect investors and safeguard the financial system.

Building on the author’s previous works on new financial technology, and drawing upon a growing literature relating to modern financial regulation, this Article seeks to make three contributions. 7 First, it aims to provide a cogent, early narrative for understanding and explaining the new financial marketplace. Second, it aims to highlight the emerging ways that new financial technologies, electronic communications, and information systems can be leveraged to manipulate financial markets to unfairly privilege the few to the detriment of the many. Third, it aims to recommend workable steps that policymakers and investors should consider to better secure the integrity of the marketplace against new modes of market manipulation. Undoubtedly, pursuing these objectives in a rapidly evolving, dynamic marketplace will necessarily result in a dated and daunting work in progress. Nevertheless, however dated and daunting, such an endeavor is also a useful and worthy one for it can offer insight about the profound, unfolding changes in our marketplace and shed light on the future of financial markets and market manipulation. Ultimately, this Article aspires to provide an original and effective framework for policymakers to think and act anew about market regulation, market operations, and market manipulation.

lees verder op de site voor diegene,die nog niet snapt dat de particulier een soort van kanonnenvoer is voor markten.
je kan overleven geluk hebben en soms wat verdienen..

[verwijderd] 1 maart 2018 18:41

quote:
BEN RisQuant schreef op 1 maart 2018 18:20:
Ben heel erg benieuwd. Laat maar zien.

een partij met zo'n markt dominantie manipuleert bewust of onbewust legaal of illegaal wie zal het zeggen.
gemanipuleerd wordt er door ze.

apple ook door alleen al voor miljarden eigen aandelen in te kopen.

Twinkeling 1 maart 2018 19:07

Zolang je handelt volgens de afspraken op een handelsplatform, manipuleer je naar mijn mening niet. Een beursorder is dus geen manipulatie

Het verdienmodel van Blackrock is anders dan handelen voor eigen rekening.

[verwijderd] 1 maart 2018 19:18

Manipulators doen het werk van God op aarde.

[verwijderd] 1 maart 2018 19:18

quote:
Witte Weduwe schreef op 1 maart 2018 19:07:
Zolang je handelt volgens de afspraken op een handelsplatform, manipuleer je naar mijn mening niet. Een beursorder is dus geen manipulatie

Het verdienmodel van Blackrock is anders dan handelen voor eigen rekening.

markets.businessinsider.com/news/etf/...

er wordt niet voor niets regelgeving ingevoerd.
uiteraard zijn de spelers en de exchanges het er niet mee eens

Twinkeling 1 maart 2018 20:28

Manipuleren ze het hard naar beneden nu? Lol

[verwijderd] 1 maart 2018 20:33

if an ETF tracks a group of rarely traded stocks whose prices could easily be manipulated

De zogenaamde Harry Mens etf?

Twinkeling 1 maart 2018 20:37

Tja, en ongefundeerd, het hele artikel.

Zolang je met harry's handel binnen de regels blijft. Wtf cares...

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